@@ BEER opening new forums @@

Sydrox wrote:

EnStekPaNnaWOLF wrote:

SparKens wrote:

4. Current leadership is known for deleting posts and censoring individuals that have views opposite to them.

4. Not once has this happen on this forum. If they ever start doing it we will just ditch the forum, what does it matter if they've done it in the past?

This has happened several times already.. The first occasion was when Shoop broke all promises of never moderating the forum promoted himself and his closest friends to moderators and immediately started to edit a few specific threads which contained critisism against him while leaving 200 spam threads untouched.

The other occasion was when Shoop edited several threads (again that contained critisism against him) and justified his actions with "It's illegal in Madagascar"

Noone here can mention ONE thing that Shoop has done that justifies him being in charge of the community forum. People who historically have posted on community forums have stopped posting completely after these actions occurred, and its far from only Sidey.

There will be a continuous BOYCOTT against these forums for as long as Shoop has a shred of power. Beer and others with authority; I urge you to take action. Nobody likes Shoop, Shoop isn't doing a good job, Shoop has a history of constantly lying/abusing. Neglecting reality or sticking your head in the sand to avoid dealing with this problem will only divide our community further.

Regards,

the 20 people who haven't posted on the forum for 6 months.

Making new accounts won't help you sidey. You should realise that the majority of the community has nothing against these forums and want to leave it this way. Besides there was a verbal agreement among admins that only moderators can delete/remove etc. , so shoop hardly has any power at all. So i suggest u to take a hike sidey, no one wants new forums , only u seem to have a problem.

Night wrote:

Sydrox wrote:

EnStekPaNnaWOLF wrote:

SparKens wrote:

4. Current leadership is known for deleting posts and censoring individuals that have views opposite to them.

4. Not once has this happen on this forum. If they ever start doing it we will just ditch the forum, what does it matter if they've done it in the past?

This has happened several times already.. The first occasion was when Shoop broke all promises of never moderating the forum promoted himself and his closest friends to moderators and immediately started to edit a few specific threads which contained critisism against him while leaving 200 spam threads untouched.

The other occasion was when Shoop edited several threads (again that contained critisism against him) and justified his actions with "It's illegal in Madagascar"

Noone here can mention ONE thing that Shoop has done that justifies him being in charge of the community forum. People who historically have posted on community forums have stopped posting completely after these actions occurred, and its far from only Sidey.

There will be a continuous BOYCOTT against these forums for as long as Shoop has a shred of power. Beer and others with authority; I urge you to take action. Nobody likes Shoop, Shoop isn't doing a good job, Shoop has a history of constantly lying/abusing. Neglecting reality or sticking your head in the sand to avoid dealing with this problem will only divide our community further.

Regards,

the 20 people who haven't posted on the forum for 6 months.

Making new accounts won't help you sidey. You should realise that the majority of the community has nothing against these forums and want to leave it this way. Besides there was a verbal agreement among admins that only moderators can delete/remove etc. , so shoop hardly has any power at all. So i suggest u to take a hike sidey, no one wants new forums , only u seem to have a problem.

I'm not Sidey. Obviously lol.. Can't you tell?

And yes there were a verbal agreement that only moderators should delete/remove/edit threads and Shoop BROKE THAT AGREEMENT SEVERAL TIMES. Didn't you read what I just wrote?

Can you give me an example of something positive Shoop has done for the forum that justifies him having a position of power despite several people boycotting because of it? This forum has 5 active users when we historically have had 20 active users on community forums.

i wonder why these 20 people, or whatever the number is, haven't made their own forum the last 6 months if they are dissatisfied with how the 5 people that post here are doing

or wait, beeeh did this already lol.



lets keep this thread interesting by bringing some facts that haven't been put on the table yet:

1) whis forum ran perfectly without any abuse, and it got boycotted.

2) we have tried many different leaders, every attempt has generated boycotts within short periods of time for one reason or another.

3) making a new forum will instantly generate new boycotts, shoop for instance, and others. you gain some posters and you lose some.

4) most of the people that don't post (americans like cow/drew, and roc players) don't have any interest in a forum. it has nothing to do with what leaders we elect.



consider point 1-4 before making a decision of being in charge of the 12th attempt at making a boycott-free community forum.

Quote :

while leaving 200 spam threads untouched.

I dont really understand, are you mad beacause this thread hasnt been deleted?

Yoo0000000000


What does it matter if I murdered someone a few months ago? It's today that matters !

Shoop is going to boycott the new forums! People are going to boycott the new forum because there isn't any abuse !

There is a verbal agreement! I think we've heard this one before !



In essence, we've heard some of the craziest statements I've ever imagined from people with power on this forum. Some of them are just piss-poor arguments, others are created out of ignorance of past events, yet others are the consequence of deeper agendas.

What we have here is a significant portion of the community ASKING YOU -- BEER -- to create a new set of forums so that we can all get along. The community is not going to put up with Shoop, Runemining, and other pawns like Nightmare who spit on fairness and incite abuse.

There are two options:

(a) We stay with the current forums. I, and many others will never post here again; we will disappear in a mist of darkness. Things stay as they are: that is to say, the community remains mediocre in terms of potential output.

(b) We start over with BEER as head on a new forum. The entire community participates and everyone is welcome. If someone wants to boycott they are free to do so: forums cater to the collective and not to the individual. We'll drive a bulldozer over Shoop when he boycotts because of too much fairness and not enough censorship.

Is this really a debate? Do what's good for the community and do what's good for yourself.

Noone seems to boycott this except you. Everyone is welcome on this forum, and it has been growing since you got removed as mod Sidey (around july I think).

Number of posts

Jan 2012 411 8%
Feb 2012 1140 23%
Mar 2012 580 12%
Apr 2012 614 13%
May 2012 255 5%
Jun 2012 374 8%
Jul 2012 210 4%
Aug 2012 169 3%
Sep 2012 106 2%
Oct 2012 137 3%
Nov 2012 336 7%
Dec 2012 557 11%

Sure it was a slow start with Sidey and Beeeh marketing their forum and trashtalking this, but in the long run I think the current mod crew (Night, Stek and Amir) have done a great job. Unlike Sidey they remove spamposts and dont edit other peoples (which Sidey did and which is why I had to remove him). After Sidey lost his mod he decided to boycott beacause, the official reason being that I took the roll of moderator during a period in which the forum wasnt moderated at all and was spammed with nazi pictures by Beeeh (I think removed 2 posts in total, posts that contained swastikas, celebrations to Hitler, etc, that didnt add anything to the forum and that ruined a discussionthread since it was spam). Compare that to Sidey who EDITED my posts. It was obvious he had to be demoted and equally obvious the current mod team is doing a lot better job when you look at the statistics.

i hope everyone realizes that the very people boycotting this forum (and attacking it's vision) have set up their own forum numerous times through history (including beeeh). noone supported it ^^ sunk like titanic every time.

it should also be clear to everyone that they have boycotted EACHOTHERS forums in the past. they have different methodologies and visions, as demonstrated by the boycott. the only rational assumption is that they're going to boycott the new forums again if the other persons methodology is implemented. you can't make all 2-3 boycotters happy if they don't agree on the vision.

long-term = you're going to gain ONE poster with making a new forum (the one who's vision and methodology u implement). the others will boycott eventually. countering this by saying that one of them has changed his vision/methodology(and that they have identical visions now) will just refute their entire case against this forum, as it's DEPENDANT on the idea that shoop has to stick to his methodology (assuming that shoops methodology allowed for abuse sometime ages ago), when its obvious that shoop hasn't abused in a very long time (shown throughout this thread by people not knowing wtf the complaints are about).

saying "we just want to get rid of abuse and everything is fine" doesn't exactly work either, as the people boycotting this forum have boycotted abuse-free forums several times before, including the whis forum



Thread summary and conclusion: you're not going to gain posters with a new forum. the VAST majority of non-posters simply aren't interested in forums regardless of leadership. boycotts are inevitable because these guys boycott forums that don't follow their methodology, regardless of whether there is abuse on the forum or not. and finally, notice that none of them has done anything to make an own forum until this one started growing again. the mouths start yapping when there is power and influence to be gained, and complete silence is observed when there is no good forum and we need someone to work for the sake of the community.

rofl that picture for sidey's account.

The only reason activity has gone up is because people are on break... Those statistics don't support anything you have said shoop and you're a fool to think otherwise.

Shoop wrote:

Quote :

while leaving 200 spam threads untouched.

I dont really understand, are you mad beacause this thread hasnt been deleted?

Did anyone else notice how Shoop busted himself here? I doubt anyone else here considers this thread a spam thread but seeing as it contains criticism against Shoop he obviously does.

Based on this we know that if Shoop was a moderator he would;

A: Delete this thread (he says himself he considers it spam)
B: Not delete this thread and subsequently do a piss poor moderator job.

either way you can tell just based on this alone that he is not fit for a power position. And don't tell me Shoop doesn't moderate the forum, he isn't fit to elect moderators either.

On to my next point. Nobody here as responded to my previous comment,

Sydrox wrote:

Can you give me an example of something positive Shoop has done for the forum that justifies him having a position of power despite several people boycotting because of it? This forum has 5 active users when we historically have had 20 active users on community forums.

Now why hasn't anyone responded to it? Because they CAN'T. There is no way for anyone here to justify Shoop having power on this forum under current circumstances and if anyone can then post your arguments please.

Let's take a look at what Shoop has done during the 1 year this forum has been in business:

1: Created 2 categories, Community Discussion and General Discussion.
2: Edited peoples posts several times making a significant amount of active posters boycott the forum.
3: Promoted his best friend to moderator without discussion.
4: Created a trashcan category.

Positive aspects of Shoop having power on the forum?
1: On New Years Shoop will change "Community Discussion" to "Community Discussion - happy new years guys"

Negative aspects of Shoop having power?
1: A significant amount of people boycott the forum because Shoop has abused (edited, ruined) their threads giving them zero incentive to contribute or post ever again.

Who here can justify Shoop having power on this forum? What is Shoop even DOING on the forum? As people has said he has promised not to moderate so what is he doing? Making a new section once a year? I can understand people not wanting to create a completely new forum but if you put that aside for a second and only focus on the issue with Shoop, should he have power? If so, why?

I demand that Shoop & Runemining give up all power they have on the forum, they can either transfer admin/mod status away or give their existing accounts to someone trustable to the community (beer)


As for the statistics... That is just LAUGHABLE! Yes post count will increase when there is 10 tournaments (that all eventually failed) posted every week forcing people to write "ye im in xD"

Post count is not interesting, whats interesting is quality. The quality on this forum is lower than on any other forum we ever had. The majority of all posts consists of "ye i wanna play tournament i think me and ratb can win it if we use runtag XD"

Actual content posted that people are interested in reading is close to none. Why? Because many of the people who usually makes interesting threads are boycotting the forum. Why does it matter? Because when the forum is boring as shit casual users who ocassionally write on the forum has no interest in doing so anymore. What does this lead to? A forum where 99% of the posts is someone writing "o.o; thats cool" and 1% is people who genuinely care about the community making threads without getting anything back just to make the forum survive five minutes longer.

When you answer our questions we will answer yours "Sydrox". And yes this is spam. Just because you attack somebody doesnt make it less spam. I dont think we should delete it though, but according to your philosophy it should.

Is ANYONE except Cele and Sidey not happy with how this forum is run, and Cele can you please tell us exacly what you are not happy with?

Either way, amir already destroyed everything you have brought up in this thread :

Quote :

Thread summary and conclusion: you're not going to gain posters with a new forum. the VAST majority of non-posters simply aren't interested in forums regardless of leadership. boycotts are inevitable because these guys boycott forums that don't follow their methodology, regardless of whether there is abuse on the forum or not. and finally, notice that none of them has done anything to make an own forum until this one started growing again. the mouths start yapping when there is power and influence to be gained, and complete silence is observed when there is no good forum and we need someone to work for the sake of the community.

BEER it’s time to make a decision.

This is not a negotiation where a middle-option is viable. Shoop is the equivalent of a serial killer with a two figure kill-count. We will never participate in a forum where Shoop has power. He has abused, ruined, and continues to keep the community in a dark age where tournaments are not played, where the community is split, and where key players refuse to part-take in map discussions.

You have the chance to turn this around right now.

Let me give you some further insight before making your final decision. This is a quote from Shoop earlier in this thread:

Quote :

After Sidey lost his mod he decided to boycott beacause, the official reason being that I took the roll of moderator during a period in which the forum wasnt moderated at all and was spammed with nazi pictures by Beeeh (I think removed 2 posts in total, posts that contained swastikas, celebrations to Hitler, etc, that didnt add anything to the forum and that ruined a discussionthread since it was spam). Compare that to Sidey who EDITED my posts. It was obvious he had to be demoted and equally obvious the current mod team is doing a lot better job when you look at the statistics.

This is a lie and deliberate distortion of what happened.

See this thread for a review of events: https://sheeptag.forumotion.net/t328-trial-of-shoop-complete-log-of-events

The events can be verified by looking at all the threads at the time.

The fact of the matter is that Shoop lies all the time. He has no credibility, he has no integrity, and he isn’t liked by anyone in the community. The only people that have stood up for him are the people he has given power in the forums. These people know he’s lying as well – they don’t care—they prefer power of justice and fairness: I don’t and you shouldn’t either.

Let’s review some of the arguments:

1. No one opposed to these forums is trying to bring them down to gain power. We are not asking for admin, we are asking for BEER to set up new forums free of abuse.
   
   
2. It really matters that Shoop has a history of abuse. We put murderers in jail for a fucking reason EVEN IF they manage to hide from the police for three days!
   
   
3. There really is a demand for a new set of forums. Key players are boycotting the current one for EXTREMELY VALID REASONS.
   
   
4. It doesn’t matter if individuals boycott a new forum because the sky is blue. There is no reason to boycott a new forum free of abuse made by the current mapmaker. Players that boycott such a forum will boycott and veto anything to get their own way.
   
   
5. The advantages of a new forum are TREMENDOUS. We’ll unite the community, we’ll improve activity, we’ll have to capacity to set up tournaments, we’ll have much more map discussion input.
   
   
6. By just getting a few key players to re-join the forum activity will SKYROCKET. Key players synergize and content quality increases exponentially as each key player returns.
   
   
7. This forum reeks of mediocrity. Content is horrible. Just by making this post I've increased the forum quality by some high percentage. That's how bad it is. This forum is a swamp of one-liners, of smiley-face posts, of unreadable chat-blabber.
   
   
8. By making a forum where everyone is welcome you are also increasing the number of people that PLAY the game. My interest in sheep tag will spark if I'm able to participate in map discussion and I'll consequently PLAY MORE GAMES. This is true for all players. We would all benefit greatly.

So, BEER, please consider what I've said and please reveal your intentions. Otherwise, as I said previously, I will disappear from this forum and let you all get on with this utter mediocre non-content forum. No bullshit answers, either you let me down or you let Shoop down. I think the correct answer here is crystal-clear and I think you'd have to be mentally insane to not pick the right side.

All the best, yo.

You are looking for a new admin since you wont get any power here, if you dont get any power on the new forum you will write the exact same bs there. But its over Sidey, you have done this too many times and you arent fooling anyone (except maybe Cele).

beer, remember that madhatters was in the EXACT same situation you're in now. he became our mapmaker, he was a young blood, and he was prompted to be in charge of new st forums - so he created a new forum. as we all know, madhatters is a GHOST now, and his forum got thrown on the trash heaps of history in a heartbeat.

the moral of the story? i'll break it down into 3 phases (all of which will happened to you too):

1) they put someone they think is easy to controll in charge. you're not being summoned because of your vision or your decision-making abilities. the guys boycotting have already stated that you're being an inconsistent mapmaker with no vision/goal for the map; its LAUGHABLE that they try to twist the situation around so that it seems like you're wanted because you're doing an excellent job with the map. it's a parody and it's extremely easy to see through. just think about why they've wanted random people like madhatters and runemining in controll in the first place before

2) when you make the new forum, you're going to get messaged every day. ''do this, do that''. the instant you do something that someone doesn't agree with; they will boycott your forum. we know this because this has happened with every single forum so far. its IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone, and its impossible to avoid boycotting because an absent of abuse isn't enough - it never was. you're to shut up, and do as you're told. this is your job. atleast thats what they want.

3) they're going to make these exact same threads (like they've done on every forum so far), you are going to be labled as a ''abuser/hitler'', and we're going to move onto the next forum. maybe we'll try cele out as the head admin next time.



beer, also keep in mind that - by making a new forum - you will be trying to satisfy the people that haven't been satisfied with ANY forum we've had so far. its always the same people boycotting, it's always some reason to boycott.

do whatever you want, but i want you to realize that you're NOT being asked because they think u'll do a great job, and you will get ganged instantly on the first big decision you make, don't believe you wont. but if you have all the time in the world and you don't care about your image and status in this community, feel free to attempt it. i can't stop you, i can only tell you the obvious.

Noone even TRIES to touch on the points I've brought up. Shoop doesn't even try to defend himself from my accusations.

I really don't give a rats ass if a new forum is made or not. And perhaps there will always be people who boycott forums for one reason or another. But it's not only one person boycotting, its several people, people who haven't boycotted forums before.

So I ask again.

What has Shoop done that justifies him having power despite several people boycotting because of it? Shoop has abused time after time giving users on this forums zero incentive to contribute. What has Shoop done? Changed the name of a few sections and promoted Nightmare to moderator?

He hasn't done ANYTHING AT ALL! And he should have been permanently exiled from forum powers years ago, that is after he deleted all posts on a forum because they contained wrong grammars.

We have atleast 3 posters on the forum so far who have been rubbed the wrong way by Shoops actions and thus boycotts the forum. Can you blame them? What incentive do they have to ever post on these forums again after what Shoop has done? Edited/Deleted threads with criticism against him time after time, forum after forum, year after year.

I wan't Shoop to step down and relieve himself and Runemining from all forumpowers. And if he won't do that then he really is more selfish than I've ever could have imagined.

Shoop is not needed here. Shoop is not doing anything. Most people have a hard time trusting Shoop considering his track record. Shoop is making several people boycott the forums. Is this not reasons enough to get rid of Shoop?

I'm spitting out reasons to get rid of Shoop. Let's make it easier shall we? Can someone give me ONE REASON TO KEEP SHOOP despite all this.

cele, aren't you equally guilty as shoop in assuming causation when you say that activity went up because of a break? lol. you might just be the fool here. and you still haven't told us WHY ur friends don't post on the forums, or HOW this will change if we create new forums.




noone claims shoop is a perfect admin. but this forum, with this team of admins/mods, is the best we're gonna get. i, together with the majority of this community, are sick of changing forums 24/7, each one being less successfull because people are tired of changing constantly. and the people that think they can do a better job than this forum OFCOURSE don't want to do anything themselves. they want to ruin what we have without replacing it. throwing a ''np, leave this place, cele/beer/cmk can make new forum yo'' is just insane... its CRAZY :/

fighting abuse is one thing, but it's a different story when the SAME people kill every forum by making their friends boycott and threaten/flame those who refuse to boycott. this happens when the forum is abuse-free as well, such as the whis-forum. we HAVE to draw the line somewhere, and go with the best alternative instead of living in a candyworld where we're magically gonna get a perfect forum that makes everyone happy, after we let these guys kill our 12th community-forum in order to make the 13th attempt.




noone who currently posts here is going to swap away from this forum, but this debate has been fun. adios.

Sydrox, why would I answer to your questions when you dont answer to ours?

You're so damn pompous shoop. I don't think anyone in the community wants Sidey as admin.

I'm unsatisfied with how little activity there is on these forums so tell me shoop considering you basically are in control of these forums, why is activity so pathetically low? What have you done that makes you better than any other admin in st history?

Also I'm curious as to what the admins really do... It's an empty title especially if you can't do basic coding to make the forums look better.

People in charge of the forum have always been blamed for inactivity regardless of the truth, but all I ever see from new admins and mods is the same old stunts and bullshit. ELECT ME TO BE ADMIN AND I WILL FIX EVERYTHING. Then nothing special gets done and activity drops even more.

I am doing my best to make activity go up, by posting and by doing the admin job (which is basically ensuring the moderators dont abuse and fixings sections etc). I also think the moderators are doing their best, by posting and by moderating. Since the new moderationcrew took over the forum activity have started to increase.

But Cele, what exacly is it that you want? All you say is that you are unsatisfied, tell us what we can do different, or who should be admin and why that would make anything better.

Okay it's nice to be optimistic and that because of the moderation crew that activity is increasing, but I really don't think it's logical to come to that conclusion. I think activity has increased because people are on break for 1 mth from school. We will see serious drop in activity once school starts up late january until summer where it will increase again. Just like every break people try to organize tournaments or hype up the game again and then activity will go to shits once the hype goes away. It has been like this for 8? years so I'm pretty sure that is EXACTLY the reason why activity has increased (temporarily).

Ok having a good moderating crew that does their job is fucking sweet, but it's also standard for any forum anywhere. What do you do that any active poster doesn't already try to do? I'm going to be honest... you're not even very active on these forums. I go on other forums and the average user makes 5-10 posts per day... and the admins and mods obviously tower way above that with like 20-30 posts. You make less than 2 posts per day. I know those are some ratty statistics, but I hope you can see my point. In comparison to any other forum; even one with a community as small as this has pathetic activity.

A couple ideas off the top off my head: hmm... trying to get ppl to set up bots to advertise the SHIT out of the forums... just like we did when it first came out (why did people stop????). Also include it in the most recent maps (IE make a fucking loading page with HUGE letters for SHEEPTAGFORUM.TK). Set up bots to advertise in the gamelist (SHEEPTAGFORUM.TK 4 SHEEPTAG).

Have you even brainstormed? Any 6th grader could have come up with these ideas and implemented them... why haven't you or anyone else currently running these forums?

Idk it's just silly that I have to come up with ideas when I don't use this forum nearly as much as you, and your job is literally to make the forum better and I just see very little progress... if what you can even really call the last few months progress. You might take that as a personal attack, but you shouldn't. I'm just being honest. These forums are sad comparison to the previous one, and the previous one before that, and the previous one before that. Everytime someone promises a new forums with exciting new possibilities it just ends up in a failure, but hey, this is the mother fucking sheep tag community... we don't learn our lessons.

Quote :

cele, aren't you equally guilty as shoop in assuming causation when you say that activity went up because of a break? lol. you might just be the fool here. and you still haven't told us WHY ur friends don't post on the forums, or HOW this will change if we create new forums.

No because I have evidence of this over the past 7 years for the sheep tag community. My evidence is recurring and shoop's reason to increased activity cannot be proven or disproven, so it must be dismissed. But enough of the boring banter I'll humor you;

My friends don't post on these forums because activity on these forums dropped to an all time low... nobody posts, and now that nobody is advertising or hyping up the forums (like the previous admins and mods used to!!! (remember mavsheeps forums? he'd log on like once a month and get more kids to join forums in an hour than we have in a month). Instead I feel like half the forum members that USED to post don't feel comfortable posting here anymore.

Kids like 307thperson, zo0lander, drewisfat, mavericksheep, gosusheep, bulldog, sidey, and many other people; REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER PETTY SHIT YOU HAVE AGAINST THEM were always great forum posters. People always were interested to see their posts, or at least the majority of people enjoyed reading them. They didn't quit posting because they stopped playing. They quit posting because the forums are boring and nobody is putting forth any effort. They quit posting BECAUSE IT WAS NO LONGER WORTH THEIR TIME.

Changing forums might not be the best idea short term, but if I stick around on these forums 1 more year with no changes I believe I will be the only one left. I mean activity has dropped to 1/2 of what it was when the forums started =/ is that sad or is it just me? Isn't it usually supposed to rise in activity not decrease?

It's also worth noting the ones most fervently against changing forums are the ones currently holding moderator and admins positions. OF COURSE the ones in "power" want to keep their power. History has shown us this time and time again. Also I have no aspiration to be an admin or moderator so my intentions are pure and not an attempt at a power grab, which everyone seems so fond of doing.

I, for one, would like to see Americans actively posting on the forums again. Sure there is some huge rivalry between US and EUROPE, but those often made the most amusing threads. To ignore the fact that ONLY 2 Americans still post on the forums would be incredibly dull. Being the Admins, why don't YOU ask these people what would make the forums better and more open? Why don't YOU do some research? Why does it take a thread like this to spurt the idea making process? I moved to these forums because of promises of increased activity, but have yet to see this in a year.

In short; I'm not satisfied due to lack of progress over the past year, and incredibly low activity.

I tried to address everything important, and nothing after this post is going to change my opinion of these forums; only a noticeable increase in activity. Until then I have to just be satisfied with mediocrity. Just my 2 cents, I hope you read it and don't take offense.

PS: Sorry for the 10000 edits. I won't edit after this xD 12/30 9:37pm

I think a central and revealing point in this debate is that Shoop has a net negative output in terms of forum activity, #posters, and content quality.

• Literally everyone hates him. He has no integrity, credibility, or vision and ambition for the forums.
  
  
• His strategy for building the forums was a few months ago -- word-for-word -- to do nothing.
  
  
• Have I yet mentioned that he's the most notorious abuser this forum has ever seen?
  
  
• Have I yet mentioned that he stole these forums through a coup? Through abuse? Through malice?

No rational mind could ever want to have him in charge of anything were it not for personal agendas (power, etc) which is exactly why the only support he has is from his moderating staff.


Do we really want to settle for mediocrity? Because that is all Shoop ever has and ever will offer us.

BEER, can you fucking respond? Will you make a new forum? Or shall we settle for failure, mediocrity, and continuous abuse?

Let's get our shit together. Let's start over on a new forum and set things right. Let's move the community out of this shithole once and for all.

cele:

1) you are equally guilty as shoop in assuming causation when there are several possible causes. both of your explenations could be the cause.

2) you're arguing AGAINST changing forums, yet you state that you support the thread-starter.

Quote :

Cele: People in charge of the forum have always been blamed for inactivity regardless of the truth, but all I ever see from new admins and mods is the same old stunts and bullshit. ELECT ME TO BE ADMIN AND I WILL FIX EVERYTHING. Then nothing special gets done and activity drops even more.

3) shoop is the most active poster on this forum. u do realize that he has the highest post-count lol? your statements are absurd. besides post-count doesn't matter, its the content. there's a reason chakras forum died despite everyone making 15 posts per day in ''million post thread'' and ''what did u eat today?''.

4) your friends don't post because noone posts? well maybe if they posted someone would be posting. so their absence from the forum is their reason for being absent from the forum? try again please. give us a valid reason for why your friends refuse to post which we're going to fix by changing forums. if people dont post because nobody posts = the solution is to trash what we have, and start on a new forum with 0 posters and build up from there? some nasty logic.


it's no wonder that our community forums can never reach their full potential when we have people that boycott for any reason(you have to stop catering to their needs when they boycott abuse-free forums, else you're never gonna get a stable forum), and we have people like you who admittedly don't do much for the forums even though you see a problem with too low activity.




PS!: i've been a moderator on literally every community forum we've had so far. chances are i'll be one in the future. night/enstek didn't/don't want to be moderators, they were persuaded into putting down work for the sake of the community. noone here is fighting for power - EXCEPT the people that lack it. use some common sense...they are going to boycott beers forum if he doesn't cater to their needs. asking for new forums is a DIRECT move for power and influence, but they want others to do the boring parts for them that require hard work.

I'm not sure who you're talking to in some parts of your post, but I have no intention of boycotting. I'm not questioning your qualifications as a moderator, but you are among the many people to always WANT to be mod or a position of power and that's why you always offer and talk up whoever is in charge to get the position. I'm not saying you're doing a bad job amir, you're doing a decent enough job bro. But the forums are still not very good right now you have to admit, and the people with the most power to change it aren't.

It's possible that you aren't arguing for what is right, but rather you are arguing to KEEP your power just as I'm sure sidey WANTS power. There is very little difference in my eyes. Is that not also valid?

Quote :

you are equally guilty as shoop in assuming causation when there are several possible causes. both of your explenations could be the cause.

You're right in one aspect. I never said that the new mod crew hasn't had some effect on activity, but it's not really measurable. Activity has been proven to increase during the winter every year regardless of mod crew.

No amir my logic holds. Nobody wants to join in on discussions when discussion is dying slowly and slowly and fewer and fewer good topics ever get made. So yes, nobody is posting because nobody is posting. Who wants to post in a forums where they feel their posts aren't properly appreciated or even looked at? If everyone posts at a slower rate... eventually nobody will want to post and leading to them just never posting altogether and never checking forum for new posts. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp and either you're just not admitting it or you're arguing me just for shits and giggles.

What kind of answer are you looking for? Some stupid claim blaming a single person or a group of people? Some kind of feeble unsupported argument this forum has seen time and time again? Sorry not happening.

I'm not on Sidey's-side. I'm not on your side. I'm not on balahalabimajobaa's side. This isn't some tag-team shit. If I'm on anyone's side it's the one against complacency and stagnancy and if you all are patting yourselves on the back for how the forums are now I would rather it go under new management. I honestly don't care WHO runs the forums. I don't give a fuck WHO is moderating. I don't care WHO the admins are. If they give me an active forum then I'm happy camper. Yet I am not a happy camper. I have moved with the community every big forum change because I support the community. Yet change is the only thing that keeps a community active (duh?); the most change revolves around beer, and if beer makes new forums odds are it will be active because he is the mapmaker. I hope you guys see where I'm going with this I'm tired of spoonfeeding.

I'd also like to reiterate that even if no new forums are made OF COURSE I will continue to post here and I hold no malice or grudges, but you're all in SERIOUS denial if you think these forums are 'good enough'. I look forward to seeing a new forum seeing this forum flourish and grow. You may not like some of my posts, or might even hate my gutZ but if I also think I'm a valuable asset to any forum and to disregard my opinion is to turn your back on a problem confronting you head-on.

I'm tired of arguing semantics all day. My most important points are ones that aren't arguable, and they're also the ones being ignored above all else. I've given some ideas of my own and I hope that my input has made a difference. I'm done with this thread.

It would be interesting to see this proof that acitivity always increase during winter, because I sure havent seen it. And why didnt activity increase during summer when Sidey was moderator?

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Ok having a good moderating crew that does their job is fucking sweet, but it's also standard for any forum anywhere.

Lol? It sure as HELL havent been standard on the sheep tag forums. Not since MAV:s forum (if even then) have we had as good moderation as now. Either mods havent done SHIT or they been extremly biased towards certain members while letting some roam free ruin topic after topic (SheepGods forum for instance).

But what I really want to know Cele is, what exacly do you want to do? What do you want to change? What is the purpose of your criticism? To tell us we got low activity? Everyone wants higher activity, but sheep tag as a whole got low activity atm and relative to the general activity of ST atm I think this forum is very active.

Sidey

As you have been told previously people will not engage in discussions with you until you start answering other peoples questions.

Also, why would BEER make a new forum lol? Do you have ANY complaints with how this forum is run BEER? In that case let us know and we can probably fix it. There is no reason to listen to powergreedy sewerrats like Sidey.

Shoop wrote:

Also, why would BEER make a new forum lol? Do you have ANY complaints with how this forum is run BEER? In that case let us know and we can probably fix it. There is no reason to listen to powergreedy sewerrats like Sidey.

Only problem I have with these forums is that traxxwolf got a subtopic for his tournament in less then a day. I never even got one over the course a month. But ye no other problems.