Sheep Tag Winter Tournament Map Discussion

Posts : 424 Join date : 2012-01-23

With the new map having many changes it doesn't seem fair that we use it for the tournament unless everyone loves it.

So I have come up with 3 options

Option 1. Use the currently released map without stacks/runes/2 hit. I will revert those 3 changes and the other things I changed in order to balance them such as wolf spawn/gold generation/wolf attack speed etc., but keep the rest of the changes.

Option 2. Use 7.1.0 just go classic mode and use the map that has been played for a couple years now.

Option 3. Use the current version of the Map

These are the only options I'm willing to use. I will be taking the majority vote if its a significant difference. If its a minor difference I will listen to the opinions and arguments in this thread only.

Posts : 163 Join date : 2012-12-04

well I voted for option 1......
Idk why people would want to play it not balanced?
I just think that would be better.
meh....
wait a sec thats not at all what I thought it was xD.
is there a way to change my vote.
Just realized what I REALLY voted for.........

Posts : 163 Join date : 2012-12-04

Gosh darn it..
I would have picked option 3.................
one of my worst moments lol.

Posts : 139 Join date : 2012-01-20

I completely disagree playing on newest map. THE tournament should be played on 7.1.0 -> a map which is balanced and perfect for competetive sheep tag.

Posts : 38 Join date : 2012-01-21

Option 3, good hotkeys cheers

Posts : 424 Join date : 2012-01-23

@NMCDO Lol I'll take that into consideration when looking at votes

So far its
1
2
8

So far it looks like option 3 is dominating. But i mostly wanna go with the captains choices.
Night says Options 2
Cmk says Option 3 (But doesn't really care)
Drew I'm not sure
Traxx I'm not sure

Posts : 215 Join date : 2012-01-21

option 3.

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

how is the new map "imbalanced" night? you do realize that both teams play wolf and sheep? people throw this word out in discussions constantly.. gosusheep tried to argue that soccer would be "imbalanced" if you could use additional tools when you're playing from one side of the field(argument against stacks). just another logical fallacy. you might as well send a letter to george bush arguing that baseball is imbalanced Very Happy

the only problem with the new map(assuming there aren't any bugs) is that there might be people who aren't familiar with the newest changes. so it would make sense to go with a map everyone is familiar with. the new map has been out for weeks tho, so danno if this really is a problem??

Posts : 357 Join date : 2012-01-21

It isn't imbalanced for the teams. It's imbalanced between sheep and shepherds.

I guess "balanced" is sheep, if facing people equally skilled, reaching 20 minutes 10% of the time or some arbitrary declaration thereof.

If sheep average 30 seconds, it's imbalanced and boring. Further, it is unlikely going to be a good championship map because the difference is likely to be very small between good and bad teams.

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

its adorable that you blindly hold on to drewism (fun is the goal and there shouldn't be objective criteria/goals), then you apply every argument in the book for the opposing side in practical situations (''we should break down fun into objective components'' ''the difference between good and bad teams should increase" "we have to set an objective measurement of balance" etc.)

but no, imbalance is a meaningless term by default, highlighted by my example of baseball.

if you want to set an objective standard for how often the sheep should win (or what the average survival time should be), you first have to shoot yourself in the face for clinging on to drewism, then you have to set an objective goal and work towards it. without an objective goal, you've successfully created ANOTHER logical fallacy in assuming that your subjective idea of how much the sheep should win has to be followed in order for the game to be ''balanced''.

the new map is NOT imbalanced.

Posts : 357 Join date : 2012-01-21

You're retarded with the imbalanced argument. Doubt anyone else needs explanation on why.

The rest of what you said is useless. Suggesting an alternative map for a championship--which has no kindling in having to be fun or follow the same standards at which a design should be brought fourth--because it better highlights its purpose, skill difference, is an obvious move.

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

this is the problem when morons like chakra have influence - much less full controll - over the map. they don't understand anything even if you break it down with babysteps. this is a decent indicator that majority vote (over anything) isn't going to work in our favour, when a mentally insane dwarf like chakra is considered on the higher end of the intelligence hierarchy.

anyway, make a new thread if you want to discuss what the ideal win-rate for sheep is. there is no basis for calling beers new map ''imbalanced'' by ANY objective standard. and it appears that the majority prefers the new map based on the vote, so i guess we have a winner.

time to PLAY BALL! Basketball

Posts : 357 Join date : 2012-01-21

Blah blah Amir lacks argument.

I wasn't arguing that the map is imbalanced, just that it is possible, just as assuredly an art work, scale, or scale can be.

Amir the idiot would say a DotA hero is balanced even if it started with 500000k HP because "both teams can play him!!!!"

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

yes, i would call it balanced if dota was played in two rounds, both teams had to play the 50000 HP hero once each, and the winner was based on some kind of sum across both games. what MORON would call this imbalanced.

what you're trying to argue is that the map isn't fun (trying to use "imbalance" as objective criteria). but, as i've proven already, noone cares what you or night thinks is fun chakra. based on shoops system for making decisions, we see that both the mapmaker AND the majority wants the new map Very Happy

you and night are ENEMIES of sheeptag based on your/shoops system, as you're trying to oppose the correct decision Very Happy

the right decision being defined by what the majority/beer wants.

you wouldn't accept logic even if it knocked on your frontdoor with a fruit-basket in its hands and a 50$ giftcard for the local tech store. take a breather, and think about what you're trying to argue before you reply to me the next time.

edit: the map can't even theoretically be imbalanced without objective goals for what we want to achieve. but keep digging your grave son.

Posts : 357 Join date : 2012-01-21

Did your brain melt our your nose or something?

In the DotA example, the teams would be balanced, but what about the players? And if one part isn't balanced, the entire thing isn't balance; the game isn't balanced.

Quote :: what you're trying to argue is that the map isn't fun (trying to use "imbalance" as objective criteria). but, as i've proven already, noone cares what you or night thinks is fun chakra. based on shoops system for making decisions, we see that both the mapmaker AND the majority wants the new map you and night are ENEMIES of sheeptag based on your/shoops system, as you're trying to oppose the correct decision the right decision being defined by what the majority/beer wants.

Nice irrelevent strawman argument. All I'm arguing is that a map can be imalanced, not that it is or if that is a meaningful thing. I didn't even vote in the poll. https://i.imgur.com/ZcO03.png

Quote :: edit: the map can't even theoretically be imbalanced without objective goals for what we want to achieve

What's the objective goal of this? Most people would say that's a balanced work.

What about the objective goal of this? Most people would say this isn't balanced.

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

i wrote a reply but decided to delete it all in fear of chakra replying. a debate with someone like chakra never ends because he's simply too stupid to understand whats being said.

so lets conclude this debate:

1) sheeptag can't be imbalanced without an objective standard.
2) all players being equally influential IS an objective goal.
4) no valid arguments have been made against 1) and 2).
5) chakra passionately fights against objective standards.
6) majority wants the new map, beer wants the new map, chakra/shoop sais decisions are to be made through majority vote/beers opinion.
7) the tourney should be on the new map and there hasn't been provided any valid reason to do anything else.

over and out.

Posts : 215 Join date : 2012-01-21

Wtf, isnt it obvious to play a tournament on the latest map that is the only one played by the entire STC?

Shoop and Chakra doesn't even play ST (neither do Amir though) and they should not have anything to say in this discussion.

Let the people who actually play decide what map is better, more fun and to be played in the tournament.

Option three will be the map we play.

Posts : 410 Join date : 2012-01-21

TraxxWOLF wrote:: Wtf, isnt it obvious to play a tournament on the latest map that is the only one played by the entire STC?

Shoop and Chakra doesn't even play ST (neither do Amir though) and they should not have anything to say in this discussion.

Let the people who actually play decide what map is better, more fun and to be played in the tournament.

Option three will be the map we play.

I agree with u there bra!, Traxx and Trollpro are:

Sheep Tag Winter Tournament Map Discussion Gandalf1

Posts : 357 Join date : 2012-01-21

Amir lose again.

4:0.

Posts : 753 Join date : 2012-01-20

I havent voted dont worry Traxx, but yeah everyone know what map I prefer.

» Sheep Tag Winter Tournament 2013
» Sheep Tag Winter Tournament 2013 Discussions
» A New Sheep Tag Tournament.
» Sheep Tag Tournament Organization
» SHEEP TAG TOURNAMENT BY RED BULL