Server: RoC or tFT

Posts : 121 Join date : 2012-01-21

As for I know we moved to RoC, because Clan Grr somehow managed to get it active at st. Now I don't see really many new people playing and joining sheep tag in public games or inhouses. Why don't we move back to tFT for 3 reasons:

1) I don't know anyone who was actually glad to move to RoC.

2) There is plenty of minor gadflies in RoC, such as range and hidden inventory.

3) All the other games other than sheep tag on RoC aren't nearly as good as on tFT.

Point 3) might also be good though since people rather play sheep tag than switching the game-version to play DoTA...

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

very much agree. there are no downsides of moving to TFT(apart from 1):

-people dont have to swap games every time they wanna dota/st

-people who are on tft all the time will join st more every now and then(i never played st before because i cba to switch games). we might see tfa, tazz, cookie etc more in sheeptag games.

-you see inventory

-etc etc etc

the only downside of moving to tft, as far as im aware, is that some people dont have TFT. thats what ive heard atleast. so who doesn't have TFT? would be MUCH more practical to move over to tft.

Posts : 6 Join date : 2012-01-21

14,99€ for TFT on the blizzard homepage (i'm not allowed to post a link)
that's affordable... shouldnt be a reason not to move to TFT

does the map still work on tft without having to change it?

Posts : 215 Join date : 2012-01-21

FiGHt4[Behh] wrote:: 14,99€ for TFT on the blizzard homepage (i'm not allowed to post a link)
that's affordable... shouldnt be a reason not to move to TFT

does the map still work on tft without having to change it?

Reasons why we shouldn't move:

1) The opposite to what amir says will happen; when we have ST on tft more people will start to play other games, such as dota and football cus they are "closer". This have killed ST once before, i dno if we want it to happen again.

2) Some current players dont have TFT

3) 100% of the recruit is made on RoC from RoC maps. MAking them start join on RoC is obviously ALOT more easy than make them buy TFT, remember, TFT is a expansion.

Posts : 6 Join date : 2012-01-21

TraxxWOLF wrote:: 3) 100% of the recruit is made on RoC from RoC maps. MAking them start join on RoC is obviously ALOT more easy than make them buy TFT, remember, TFT is a expansion.

in average there are 4000 people online on RoC.. i dont believe thats a perfect base for recruiting.

Posts : 215 Join date : 2012-01-21

FiGHt4[Behh] wrote:

TraxxWOLF wrote:: 3) 100% of the recruit is made on RoC from RoC maps. MAking them start join on RoC is obviously ALOT more easy than make them buy TFT, remember, TFT is a expansion.

in average there are 4000 people online on RoC.. i dont believe thats a perfect base for recruiting.

Thats 4000 more than there are recruitable TFTers (those who arent addicted x10 to dota)

Posts : 357 Join date : 2012-01-21

Quote :: does the map still work on tft without having to change it?

Yes.

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

traxx
1) i dont think there is anything stopping people from leaving ST and going fulltime dota just because ST is played on roc. and im certain most ''dota players'' (chaise twix me night blablabla) didnt come back to ST because its on roc or because we can't play dota on roc, but because we've missed it + many good players are back now so we can get high quality games quite often. it wouldn't make a difference if it was on tft.

moving to tft will just make everything simpler, instead of switching games when u want to play a different game for a change. but we're definitely not eliminating the threat of other games simply by playing on roc ^^

2) who? (this is important because this is the only reason to keep playing on roc.)

i think we're also losing players due to playing on roc. i never played st before because i couldn't be fucked to swap versions all the time. its a huge pain in the ass for people who dont only play ST.

3) well ST is played on roc, so naturally the recruits are from roc.. when st was played on tft, the recruits were from tft. and i might be wrong, but im pretty sure TFT is more active than ROC. and why is it obviously ALOT more easy to recruit on roc? obviously if you recruit on tft, the players will already have the expansion? so you wouldnt need to make them buy it Laughing

Posts : 425 Join date : 2012-01-21

I've got a legend idea.
Some people could form a TFT clan ( or we use clan WhiS? ) and try to recruit people, who are interested.
If this works good and We get more and more players, the people from roc would / could / should come to tft also.

Posts : 141 Join date : 2012-01-22

If st come b in tft, it should be rlly good

Posts : 86 Join date : 2012-01-21

Are we sure there is more 'range' and all that crap on RoC? Can someone (chakra) confirm this? I mean most kids feel like there's more range on every newly released version of ST and perhaps its the same when ppl moved from tft to roc. I don't deny there's range or whatever in ST but as i remember it, it was also like that on TFT. Afterall aren't the 'engines' the same for both tft and roc? (Chakra?).

I do enjoy the occasional dota and did leave a bunch of friends 'behind' on tft. Nevertheless switching versions to play dota or whatever is a very minor concern and if you 'cba' then that's your problem.

Recruiting on TFT has become de facto impossible. No one is interested in ST on TFT. We've tried recruiting on TFT in 2009 and 2010 and it didn't work. ST just simply doesn't seem to appeal to the pubs on TFT. On RoC however ST is one of the most popular pub games and thus we do have a basis to recruit pubs and introduce them to ST and the community. The absolute pool of possible recruits is perhaps 10 times larger on tft than on roc but this all doesn't matter if people simply arent interested in trying ST out in pub games.

The threat of other games is a poor argument for both sides. I cba go into detail on this one.

Obviously if we did move back to tft there would be some old sheeptaggers playing more often with us than now but then again there wud also be a bunch of people who wouldnt move to tft for ST. In large the one would cancel out the other. In other words this argument doesn't work either for both sides.

I've seen Roc maps (snipers) where you can see the inventory of your allies/enemies. I'm sure with a bit of research the mapmakers can figure out how to implement that in our map as well. Regardless I don't think the inventory is much of an issue. One might even argue it's better or 'more fun' or whatever with the current inventory situation.

To conclude; If the engine and range issues aren't exclusively roc-related than I see no point in moving to TFT since from a recruiting angle it's simply not a viable option.

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

who is recruiting on roc? and which members have been recruited in 2011? and what makes you think that roc players are more interested in ST than tft players?

im not sure since i haven't been around, but it could be explained by the fact that the ''noob'' community members have always been on roc and played alot of ultimate/grr maps there all along, while tft doesnt have any sheeptaggers who are interested in playing Grr maps with pubs. frequency/method matter as well. who has tried recruiting on tft and failed? it seems like a random claim to say that you can recruit new players on roc while you can't recruit on tft.

i dont care about range. inventory doesn't mean anything to me either. i only care about whats more practical for the majority of the community. having to switch games is an unnecessary problem. noone has answered this yet, who doesn't have TFT on roc?

Posts : 425 Join date : 2012-01-21

A lot of people got recruited, which are atm at the level of dark_exodus?
THey will learn and be good / decent in some time.

Posts : 86 Join date : 2012-01-21

Basically what happens on roc, and im sure traxx can explain this better, is kids hosting the grr map (like ultimate) and random pubs join it.. the new kids join grr or csb or whichever clan the host is in, gets access on bot and starts hosting his own pub games.

We've tried (i think was some joint venture of most 'leaders') in 2009 to host pub games and try to teach pubs in those games some basic ST but the games simply wouldn't fill up. Im not sure but i think borja (& exa?) also tried this. We've also tried setting a autohostbot up but again, the games simply dont fill up on tft.

Some of these recruits from roc are noble_tagger and his crew.

Why people on roc are more interested? I can't say with certainty. Perhaps theres a significant lack of other good games (i.e dota) on roc, or perhaps the map appeals more to pubs... i dont know but im sure most people who were involved in this will agree with what im saying about recruiting.

Posts : 357 Join date : 2012-01-21

Quote :: Are we sure there is more 'range' and all that crap on RoC? Can someone (chakra) confirm this? I mean most kids feel like there's more range on every newly released version of ST and perhaps its the same when ppl moved from tft to roc. I don't deny there's range or whatever in ST but as i remember it, it was also like that on TFT. Afterall aren't the 'engines' the same for both tft and roc? (Chakra?).

While the engines are theoretically the same, there are some things that are inherently different in the physics department. For example, in RoC you can't golem jump over two farms if you are facing upwards (but can left/right/down). In TFT you can. This obviously shows there is something different and I can't say that the "range" is different between the maps. However, what is different wouldn't be "range" (as these are simply fixed numbers), but rather default values that differ (IE, say golems might have more damage on RoC/TFT). But that sounds a bit odd to me--are RoC ladder units stronger/weaker than their exact counterparts on TFT?

There is a very simple reason why recruiting on TFT is many times harder than recruiting on RoC: The TFT game list is completely flooded with games. By default the game list only shows 20 games. I'm not exactly sure how the client picks which games to show and in what order, but some users have found out and coded "premium bots" (which cost three times the price of normal bots) which cheat the natural system. Their games always show up. Ours rarely do. There is a TFT hostbot that hosts Ultimate Sheep Tag 24/7 - check how long it takes for the game to show up in the list. If you really want to play you can find it, but you wont' stumble upon it (and if you do you have to wait forever).

Posts : 27 Join date : 2012-01-22

Moving back to tft would be great. It would solve the whole invis argument because on tft invis was useless^^ and was never used. Also I really don't think moving back to tft would have negative effects on recruiting... I really don't see any recruiting being done now on roc, and i don't think the problem is roc/tft but with warcraft 3 being old as shit... 6-7 years ago sheep tag was one of the most played games atleast on west tft. Ulti games or grr maps never get filled up on roc and i see no problem with moving back to tft.

Posts : 357 Join date : 2012-01-21

Invis was buffed...

Posts : 86 Join date : 2012-01-21

you guys go tft i stay roc

roc > tft

Posts : 161 Join date : 2012-01-21

Chakra wrote:: Invis was buffed...

Sheep true sight was lowered from 1800 to 725...

Posts : 753 Join date : 2012-01-20

A big advantage with RoC is that the hostbots we use for sheep tag cant be used for dota. That means we dont share the channel with mass dotaplayers which in the long run means more sheep tag and less dota. I am glad people like cookie and tfa are not playing sheep tag with us as long as 90 % of their friends are 100 % dota players and they themselves are 99 % dota players.

Posts : 215 Join date : 2012-01-21

CHIEFHERO[SKS] wrote:: who is recruiting on roc? and which members have been recruited in 2011? and what makes you think that roc players are more interested in ST than tft players?

im not sure since i haven't been around, but it could be explained by the fact that the ''noob'' community members have always been on roc and played alot of ultimate/grr maps there all along, while tft doesnt have any sheeptaggers who are interested in playing Grr maps with pubs. frequency/method matter as well. who has tried recruiting on tft and failed? it seems like a random claim to say that you can recruit new players on roc while you can't recruit on tft.

i dont care about range. inventory doesn't mean anything to me either. i only care about whats more practical for the majority of the community. having to switch games is an unnecessary problem. noone has answered this yet, who doesn't have TFT on roc?

About 70% of clan grr (70 ppl) have been recruited from RoC 2011-2012. Everyone hasnt continued but in the STC today there are plenty of examples. Those are the one getting kicked asap in 'real games' tho.

Posts : 608 Join date : 2012-01-21

what happened on tft was that you guys put up a shitload of hostbots to auto-host sheeptag and start when 8 ppl joined. there was barely anyone playing there. on roc, you have these noobs hosting themselves and interacting with pubs and showing them the basics through playing. there is a MASSIVE difference between these methods. or did i get it wrong?

Posts : 425 Join date : 2012-01-21

So we all pay 2 Euro ( Dollar w.e. ) / month to get a super uber premium bot!

Posts : 100 Join date : 2012-01-25

Nothing is wrong with RoC and if we move to TFT 50% of st will die. we have 30-35 legends and if we move I bet 5 euros that we will have 15-20 left. Fight amongths urselves but I know what will happen if we move to TFT nobody will play it because we have been playing RoC so long tft st is GONE completely! Anyways if we stay RoC nothing will happen like dota/st have big fight/dota steal st bot and st will stay 100% better then Dota so lets just stay RoC so nothing happens and nobody gets left behind anyways we all have successful clans so why would we want to have half of them tft the other half RoC? Stwc would NEVER happen. You guys would all be "No stwc will happen on TFT!" "No we created stwc on RoC you come RoC!" "No I deleted it" And guess what? I dont want to hear any bitching because you guys all had ur stupid ass debate on a dumbass topic of moving to TFT where you can recruit none there because you LEFT it and also we should make a bot like endless- again because prod stopped paying his int ect ect... we all pay an equal amount for it and we will autohost like endless- get some geeks, train them, and make more legends eventually in time - So get this. St has a 5-10% of surviving if we do all what has been said, And if we move to TFT with no bots and then 60% of st'ers on TFT will move to Dota nobody will play st, st will be dead on both Ect ect and why do we need an expansion when RoC is just fine? Gege geeks we stay RoC.

Posts : 424 Join date : 2012-01-23

Mr.NiceGuy wrote:: Moving back to tft would be great. It would solve the whole invis argument because on tft invis was useless

This guy for real? I think he may be legally retarded.