New Testmap

* Remove cashfarm
* Remove claws
* Raise damage so that the wolves destroy normal farms in 2 hit (3 hit with aura) and upgraded in 3 hit (4 with aura)
* Add stackfarm for 15 gold
* Reduce golemcost to 50 gold
* Reduce str beam cost to 40 gold
* Reduce str pot cost to 20 gold
* Remove all bounties for killing a sheep
* Remove all bounties for saving a wisp
* Increase sight radius of sentry farms and make them see over hills
* Remove goldsharing

BIG support.

i support any test-map of any ideas. keep the real map as it is, make these trial versions on the sides. its so much more productive when we get to test the different visions people have for ST than to debate it for years without doing shit.

its also fun with variation and drastic changes. keeps people interested, even if the changes are only temporary for testing purposes. it also involves the drugbrains like cmk who thinks an argument is a football player from greece, and has 0 interest in participating in debates, but he can still give feedback after testing the map.





!!important!! im not supporting the changes/ideas. im only supporting a trial version where we get to test them.

Shoop wrote:

* Remove cashfarm
* Remove claws
* Raise damage so that the wolves destroy normal farms in 2 hit (3 hit with aura) and upgraded in 3 hit (4 with aura)
* Add stackfarm for 15 gold
* Reduce golemcost to 50 gold
* Reduce str beam cost to 40 gold
* Reduce str pot cost to 20 gold
* Remove all bounties for killing a sheep
* Remove all bounties for saving a wisp
* Increase sight radius of sentry farms and make them see over hills
* Remove goldsharing

From just reading this kind of change would make ST a entire new game.. wtf.. But I cba present an essay of arguments, i'll just present my ideas when I played a possible trial. But it sounds horrible.

I just wanted to bump this topic, this was made before BEER did his changes and some changes he made are included on this list.

But I really think you should consider some other points on this list aswell :

* Remove cashfarm, this is a birdshit farm that adds no mastery and just increases the 2-20 problem. Or maybe you already did?

* Remove bounty for killing a sheep. This bounty serves NO positive purpose whatsoever but it increases the 2-20 problem for obvious reasons.

* Remove bounty for saving, same but it isnt as bad.

I also think you should remove invis because it really reduces the overall mastery of sheeptag as it greatly handicaps the potential of what really good runtaggers can achieve with their skill. The mastery it does add, which isnt very big, essentially everyone who used invis more than 10 times is equally good at it as wolf and the only ones who really benefit from it as sheep are the maphackers does not make up for this.

Did you remove claws and cloak as well? They don't seem to be viable strategies anymore.

Also, did you increase gold per minute for shepherds and sheep since they can no longer really produce their own gold?

What? Who are you talking to?

Shoop recently contacted me to make the map, so I did. Basically the same as initial post, but with some differences (as per Shoop's commands in chat):

Removed Farms

• Money Farm
  
• Strong Farm
  
• Frost Farm
  
• Wide Farm
  
• Invisible Farm
  
• Invisiblity Farm
  
• Sentry Farm
  

Add Stack Farms
Removed All But Following Items

• Golem
  
• Strength Potion
  
• Beam of Strength
  

Raised Shepherd damage to 141

• Kills Normal Farms in Two Hits
  

Reduced Upgraded Farm HP to 180

• Killed in Three Hits
  

Reduced Item Prices

• Golem -> 50 with -buy
  
• Beam -> 40 with -buy
  
• Str -> 20 with -buy
  

Removed Bounties for Killing & Saving
Removed Gold Sharing

http://www.epicwar.com/maps/229392/

Nice. ^^

respect to chakra.

im currious whether this version is gonna be good. sounds very interesting on paper, but might be a different story when playing.



also, whats the status on updating the map? chakra is hired fulltime? for this to have any chance at becoming a real map, we need constants updates until it's properly balanced etc.

I'm not "hired." I made it 'cause I had nothing to do and was bored for half an hour.

If the map needs more updates, complain to me and I might do so.

When I first heard this I thought wow... this is gonna be awful. Then I looked at the gold pricing for each item... looks pretty cool.

I don't see the logic in removing wide farm (lol??? w0ts wrong with wide), but hey who cares. 

I look forward to trying this map out, and I'll give any map a shot at least once.

Awesome this map looks like it should be great fun. Cant wait to test it.

After playing this earlier we all kinda approve of the map... the most recent map turned out to be something of a disaster (inb4 redbull & farm illusions)...

I fullheartedly approve of this map.

Keep up the good work chakra.

CHAKRA SHOOP FROST!!! MAPMAKERS FOREVER!! :DD

I might comment on other things later if I can be bothered to.

But for now; what's the reasoning behind removing the wide farm and not the hard farm?

From experience I find that the wide farm is much more suited for the meta game of sheep tag. The farm is much easier to place within a damaged mass making it a good tool to quickly fill some damaged area or runtag between two sides of a cut mass etc.

The hard farm is just a big chunk of nothingness less suited for these things due to its size. I can see it adding in runtag games though giving you more space between yourself and the sheps. But I assume the map is developed primarily for competetive massing games.

We could keep both, and my opinion is that we should. But if you are deadset on removing 1 and keeping the other then please readd wide farm and remove hard farm. The wide farm is easier to find use of in teamgames and will help increase the "action" in any given game.

Shaddup brugges, we don't even know who you are GEEK. It's a nice map that you probably haven't even played. Don't judge it before playing it, cya.

Who I am is not at all relevant. Either what I say is true or it's not, either people agree or they don't. I'd say it's better you don't know who I am because then the only thing that will influence you is the argument itself rather than who I am and what your relationship to me is. Don't you get that?

It's incredibly stupid of you to try and shut down map discussions and input from others in the way that you just did. Maybe you didn't notice but there's not exactly an abundance of activity in this thread and idiotic replies won't increase it. Instead you're disencouraging posting from me and others which inevitably will make activity suffer even more. GJ!

And yes I have played the map and while testing it out I noticed the absence of the wide farm thus making this thread to begin with. I don't see any big change that is gonna largely influence how these 2 farms are used and have been used so far therefore its not really relevant either if I played this particular map or other similar ST maps.

I can't know if it's good or bad to cut my own finger off unless I do it?

Get a haircut and shape up kiddo.

I was kind of confused when I removed the Wide Farm as well.

It's a very simple (minimal) yet effective farm.

So is the map actually good?  Is it worthy of playing as our new map?
Need more info + need to test this map.
~Nmcdo~

It was fun for most people who played it, me being one of them. Got huge lol's from us too :)Cele says it will be used for the 2v4 I hear, so might as well get to know it.!

Chakra, I asked for the wide farm to be removed because I wanted as clean start of this map as possible. But this is just the first version, so obviously changes will be made if we continue with the map.

The problem with sheep tag is that too many things have been added without good reason, and we have lost touch with the essence of sheep tag. The part of the game that makes sheep tag what it is, that makes sheep tag fun and that separates pros from noobs and legends from pros.

I am not saying wide farm shouldnt be in the map, but the question should rather be why should it be in sheep tag? Not why shouldnt it?

Oh and yeah I am not having any discussion with Brugges or any other smurf. If you cant stand for your opinions then I wont bother with them.

After playing the map the only thing I found quite annoying is there is no permanent items as wolf. Maybe add gloves or some sort of splash damage item (stay away from 1 hit) because after a certain point the sheep just cover the entire map in 5v5s. Also you do not want gold sharing, but you can drop and trade items you should fix. Also add bomber or some sort of killing tree mechanism because sheep can just douche in trees. Or just move the trees. Other than that nice fast paced map for 2v4 and 3v5!

Hmm, it seems like balance has to be changed so wolves are a little bit stronger compared to sheep lategame but perhaps weaker early game. Brainstorm!

Some sort of penalty for the sheep or bonus for the wolves when the sheep have many farms? That would add the interesting feature that you have to consider what farms are worth building etc while it will reduce the 2-20 problem.

Ye i like the idea of penalty. Farm count could work, but can be real lame and would have to vary depending on number of sheep. 

You could just give all farms X amount of lifespan and they would blow up after that time. And add Numbers over the farm or some kind of a warning for final 3 seconds or so.

Final idea maybe some kind of bounty increase for wolves depending on how many farms are on the map. For instance 0-99 farms = 1 gold per farm 100-199 farms = 2 gold per farm etc. Would take a lot of balancing but it could work.

I am more and more leaning towards a system where the wolves get bonus damage or maybe attack speed based on how many farms the sheep has.

The system would then probably be based on how many wolves there were.