Redirect for the lose

Every turd that is easy to kill can suddenly use redirect, there is almost no difference between a pro and a noob anymore, just use redirect, it's an insane boring skill and im definetly against it ... this is not how i know sheeptag, get rid of that piss idiotic bullshit move. i first knew about redirect for real when 7.1.0 was out and this is just the drop down of sheeptag, there are so many idiots who got a hard time wolfing and it doesent get better if a noob sheep can use redirect when finally there is a luckshot for the noob shit wolf.

Either get rid of that redi or get rid of golems lol ...

Its false

Redirec is hard to use, and 'noobs' dont use it

Give me names of noobs who used it

Rofl... You say redirect is for noobs but you are not able to use it at all. You're just mad cuz everytime you throw a golem you get redirected. But to counter redirect you just have to share the golem you threw and kill the sheep, try to do it

Redirect is yet another great skill to master in sheeptag removing that would be insane dumb.
Just controll your golem damnid !!

CandyManKiller wrote:

Just controll your golem damnid !!

This ^ now bad wolves can't just throw a golem and get a bs kill. They have to actually control their golem and right click the sheep.

https://i.imgur.com/TpCVQ.png

Redirect has been in WC3 since at least July 3, 2002.

Quote :

there are so many idiots who got a hard time wolfing and it doesent get better if a noob sheep can use redirect when finally there is a luckshot for the noob shit wolf.

So we should remove redirect to encourage noob shit wolves to try luckshots?

redirect wont do eitherway chakra u turd, 123wolf is one of them getting good in Redi, jean mii and others using it, redirect has been in st since 2002 and yet it has not been used much and how is that? please tell me what good redi is there for, it has to be published for shitty wolves to not even use golems if they arent experienced with it, i dont see how redirect is so fucking nice to master, it was not even used befor 2012, besides peops are not even thinking straight, the amount of kills done by golem has been decreased by 50%? becuz sheeps just have to press 'A' on an object to avoid golem, that is not hard ... seriously, peops must be insanely dump or just not very skilled at all, redi does no good in sheeptag, and begin to give me some real answers, not flames and not dump arguments, i need real comment on what it's good for.

Redirect is for the legends !

CandyManKiller wrote:

Redirect is for the legends !

Best argument so far.

Trollpro: the new Magoo. I can't even figure out what part of his post is directed at me, nor can I figure out what the first four "words" mean.

But "it was not even used befor 2012" is clearly wrong: here's complaining back from July, 2011.


What redirect is good for:
Only counter to golem jumps. Removing it encourages safemassing and boring play.

drewisfat wrote:

The other day Ed and I were playing ultimate sheep tag. I used -buy golem and golem jumped a pub over a farm. He got real upset and said I was cheating. I asked how. He told me that's not what golems are supposed to be used for.

And this is why redirect is fine because sheep tag revolves around glitches.

redirect is boring can we remove it? who cares if pros can use it to not die, and LEGENDS can controll their golem to get kills? i thought this wasn't important anymore?


beer, maybe add redirect and golems for everyone except yourself. now you can see how boring it is when ur allies run around trying to get golem kills but are too bad to counter redirect??? but if we REMOVE REDIRECT, YOUR BAD WOLF ALLIES WILL BE MORE USEFULL! one less skillful thing they can fuckup with...i mean, its not like we play 1on1, st is a TEAM game. boring as shit when noob allies get golems and sheep can redirect it or? much more fun if we force all wolves to get claws? YaBBaA dAaABAA dOOOOOOOooooooo unclE SCOOBIE IS HERE

beer/drew/chakra logic nailed! lets see if they atleast hold consistency to their arguments by removing the redirect as well.

Only a half filled toilet would compare the two. Logic works for removal of golem, not for redirect.

i dont see any graphs, links to drew-posts from 2006 or half-baked essays that would be identical to a magoo post if the grammar was somewhat worse..

I'd say chakra is out of words lets see the consistency!




2-20 shouldn't be reduced beyond the removal of the invis. we shouldn't increase runtag if it means reducing wolf-speed by 50%! but maybe, MAYBE, we'll see consistency in the argument of removing stuff that allows your allies to fuck up because we don't play 1on1 games :D:D

The goal is to make the game more enjoyable, not to reduce the 2-20 problem. The 2-20 argument is a subset of this, as it represents a boring element. The total elimination, however, is not called, for it suggests you are cutting into other aspects of the game that may be fun. So while redirecting can cause a 2-20 problem, the enjoyment it brings to sheep--that of being able to not safemass 24/7--far exceeds that of the 2-20 problem faced by shepherds. Further, blaming redirect for the 2-20 problem is like blaming bullets for murder; while they are ultimately part of it, they are neither the source nor the primary agent.

It is the magic "not this far" you seem to think is completely arbitrary. The "point" where we stop editing is simply where the negatives outweigh the positives.

I know someone who has absolutely zero abilities to produce a creative project, nor thought, may find it hard to contemplate untangleable goals. But if you and Sidey really wish to oppose any changes the map may possibly go through, such as you did with Gosu and I, because it shows your complete irrelevancy and inability to produce a persuasive argument--down to always blaming friendliness of your opposition for your loss--then at least, for the love of God, say something more, or something with actual weight, than we would expect from a 16-year-old green country-born lady from a high fantasy novel.

BtW, nice flame comparing my posts to Magoo's nine hours after I do it to TrollPro in this very topic. Very impressive.

Quote :

The goal is to make the game more enjoyable, not to reduce the 2-20 problem. The 2-20 argument is a subset of this, as it represents a boring element. The total elimination, however, is not called, for it suggests you are cutting into other aspects of the game that may be fun. So while redirecting can cause a 2-20 problem, the enjoyment it brings to sheep--that of being able to not safemass 24/7--far exceeds that of the 2-20 problem faced by shepherds. Further, blaming redirect for the 2-20 problem is like blaming bullets for murder; while they are ultimately part of it, they are neither the source nor the primary agent.

so 2-20 in itself isn't an argument for anything, because it can't be applied to everything. the main argument is that invis is boring, and 2-20 is a supplementary point? gotcha. but i also mentioned that redirect is boring in my last post, and used the 2-20/your allies can fuck up arguments as subsets. where did my argument go wrong????

this is the problem with your/shoops arguments. EVERY argument you use to justify the removal of the invis magically doesn't apply to anything else. ultimately your whole case is ''the invis is boring". the problem is that you use your conclusion as your main and only (subjective) argument. i don't think the invis is boring. when the same arguments are used against golems/redirect, including "the golem/redirect is boring", you claim that the arguments don't justify the conclusion(that they are infact boring and should be removed) or you simply claim that im wrong about the said elements being boring, EVEN WHEN all "my" arguments perfectly apply. you might as well take your dads shotgun and shot yourself in the face :/

keep in mind that this isn't even an issue about whats "fun" and whats "boring". im AGREEING with chakras viewpoint and goals. im trying to increase HIS fun with HIS arguments but, as mentioned already, his baconbrain of a PIGSHIT doesn't grasph the concept of consistency.


btw, you do realize that you're embarresing yourself in every debate? there is noone who thinks you've won any point in any debate you've had with me so far. i doubt even shoop truly believes in the 2-20 bullshit or the "increase runtag by any means" vision. these are arguments designed to convince crackbrains to support his cause, and to ultimately get his way through a majority support.

Quote :

so 2-20 in itself isn't an argument for anything, because it can't be applied to everything. the main argument is that invis is boring, and 2-20 is a supplementary point?

The 2-20 problem, as I already explained, represents a boring element of the game. Imagine the "2-20 problem" being a scalar quantity, 0-100, and at current it is around 70. The argument is that removal of invisible potions reduce it by 20, while removal of golem reduces it by 10. Further, since the 2-20 problem only represents a factor of "enjoyment," we must also take into account other factors such as excitement. Invis, compared to golems, is rather low in excitement. Other factors, such as frustration and challenge, also view golem is a much better light than invis.
Most agree invis is boring, golems are not.

Quote :

EVERY argument you use to justify the removal of the invis magically doesn't apply to anything else

Did I not say it does for golems and other factors? The problem is that 2-20 is only a factor we consider, not the goal. "Enjoyment" is a near impossible goal to quantify without being completely subjective, thus the concept of the 2-20 problem, the argument of "mastery" (simply an offshoot of challenge), the "encourages safe-massing" argument, etc.

Quote :

the problem is that you use your conclusion as your main and only (subjective) argument. i don't think the invis is boring

And thus your over-representation of your self-importance. While it is always nice to appeal to the majority, ultimately it is the mapmaker that makes decision if something is boring--negative--or not. This might seem unfair to you, but you can always put in the work yourself and make the changes you want. Beer, as well as Gosu and I, have no responsibility to make a map you enjoy. We are not indentured to you in any way. It is only logical that our self interest guides the map: we put in what we find fun. The reason we compromise is only to satisfy our feelings of altruism. The reason why friends, such as Drew, have more significance is because he is a friend: we feel a greater responsibility to make him happy than you. Chances are high you'll lend $100 to a friend, chances are low you'll lend $100 to a random off the street.

Arguments are nice and all, but I doubt Beer lives off them. You want a consistent way to influence map changes? Either pay him, as most the globe does when they want work done, or befriend him. Throwing shit isn't ever going to get what you want.

good post. some honest shit.

noone is forcing beer to be logical or consistent. if he shits on people by ignoring everyone who isn't his friend, like you did, the people will throw the shit right back. noone has a responsibility to be nice to him or you, and if you want respect, either earn it or pay us. you see, it works both ways. MUTUAL BENEFIT OR WAR! the world doesn't revolve around you. money doesn't grow on trees, and you don't get respect for free.

i also think that whoever decides to develop the map is fully and inherently responsible for trying to do whats best for the community, much less if he claims hes doing it for altruistic purposes. not really altruistic when you admit that you do it for personal benefit, you know . its disgusting that you condone the idea of abusing such a big community-power for own benefit. everyone who doesn't have a problem with this, because the mapmaker is currently going with their ideas, is a braindead cockroach as well. this could MAYBE be understood (if not condoned) if there was more competition amongst mapmakers - there isn't.



im not sure whether beer ignores me or simply think the anti-invis arguments are stronger. there is nothing wrong with the latter as far as im concerned. unintentionally failing is acceptable, intentionally ignoring whats good for the community for personal benefit isn't. but it would be nice with a satisfactory explanation and not a MONGO appeal to majority when decisions are being made if beer is as reasonable as i like to think he is.

Quote :

its disgusting that you condone the idea of abusing such a big community-power for own benefit

It's disgusting to believe someone would develop a map so he and his friends can have fun?

Horrible, truly horrible!

yes it is. you're a SAD, sad person if you need to make a map for people to like you, and you're even worse if you don't need it, yet ruin it for everyone else so your friends can have a laugh. i think its the latter, so you can thank me for the compliment later. but correct me if im wrong


its not the communities fault that your daddy didnt give you the attention you need. go make your own map, get some different hobby. if you're not going to TRY to do whats best for the community, stay away from our map or we're going to chase you away like frankenstein and the 3 pigs.

Roflmao. You are completely hysterical!

I like how you make the strange connection that we develop maps to make friends, as if that is the order of things. As if Gosu was a complete and utter outcast before he gained control--or that I was. Strange, then, that we both have been in the community long before your name was even spoken. We have been in clans--run clans--before the concept of global competition truly entered the fray.

What's even worse is your view of "our map." Claiming the map is "yours" is like me claiming Walmart is mine because I thought big-box retailing is a good idea. You have done no work on the map, yet you claim ownership? As I have said, you completely overstate your importance. Both your historical and current "contributions" to the map--at least that's what you call them--only exist as "debate," in which you generally have always lost. Even if you won, your arguments in no way contribute to the work put into the map. I may tell a peasant how to farm a land, that does not give me any entitlement to his crop.

I did make my own map. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have played it. Why don't you go make your own map?

chakra calm down ok?

but yeah, quite interesting that gosusheep quit mapmaking the SECOND people started criticizing his work if he didn't do it to make friends/get influence, and you left the boat when the community already died. where are you and gosu now? the RATS spread faster than aids when there's no more power, attention and influence to be drained and abused

you're stuck in a dream where you're the hero because you chose to develoup the map when noone else could do it. the reality is, in my opinion, that you just made the map worse. balancing and all is good, but the important changes are the ones where you completely ignored the best of the community and did whatever daddy-drew told you to do.




i've contributed a tenfold of what you have to this community, you can trust your life on that. and you made me, as well as MANY others, quit ST through your ''altruistic, yet slightly selfish" map-making BOOOOOOOOOOO! Throw chakra to the lions!

edit: also interessting that you claimed the map AFTER the community has already been formed. you start mapmaking when 1000 ppl play ST and you quit when 20 ppl are left. wtf is wrong with you.. aren't you ashamed of claiming it as your own instead of a community property?

Quote :

quite interesting that gosusheep quit mapmaking the SECOND people started criticizing his work if he didn't do it to make friends/get influence, and you left the boat when the community already died

Are you trying to suggest a correlation or something? Gosu "quit" when he was criticized; shouldn't I have, then? Of course the point is absurd, because Gosu was criticized the moment he took over, as all editors have always been criticized, especially by leeches who have never done work, such as you and Sidey.

Quote :

also interessting that you claimed the map AFTER the community has already been formed

The community never had ownership of the map. Suggesting "joint ownership" over a project that has always, at any given time, only had a single developer, is retarded. Even if ideas were blatantly stolen from another map, labor had to be done to steal said idea.
And while Gosu was clearly the editor, the moment I got my hands on the map, it was mine. Just as the map is yours if you open it up in the editor. I do not claim all the work was done by me, I simply claim none of the work was done by you, Sidey, or the 995 other people in the community.

I enjoy how you make an appeal of doing something for this community. As if I was arguing I was doing something for the community. No, I was doing something for myself and my friends. Maybe if the community paid by $5/hr, I'd make it a map. Or maybe if the community was fun to play with it, I'd do it out of joy of playing a better map with fun people. But the community--mianly the European community--has always been a retched thing that I'd never willing spend my time to help. Mine-as-well give the wolves my sheep.

As I said: you can teach a farmer to farm, but that doesn't entitle you to his crop.

why would gosu get critisized before he fucked up? whats wrong with you.. it was shortly after the removal of the stack that you started taking over, and you know it.

YOU are the leech lol... you take the works of others (the map/community) and abuse it to HELL for your own personal benefit and to befriend drew, because both me and you know that people of value would generally stay away from you if it wasn't for the map-controll and power you got through "adopting the map". the worst part is that you're proud of this and think theres nothing wrong with it.

you didn't create anything in our community, and you're CERTAINLY not responsible for the success of ST during the early days.




show me something you did for the map or the community. dont post a list of 50 irrelevant changes to the revo map. tell us what u think you did that people leeched of? would be embarresing to not have a knockout reply to this question after claiming that people leech off of you.

EdITS: i guess you wouldn't have a problem robbing a bank either? u could share some money with daddy-drew and live in the bahamas ye?

Redirect is a terrible satan-spawned counter to God's golem jumping. I sold my soul to learn this move and now I have paid a price I was not ready to pay.. the true taking of my soul, my best neighbor-friend drop-bars...

But God has given me a chance to retain my soul and to spread the word of satan's evils, and I was able to record the most terrible moment in my life. I hope we can all watch this and understand that the easy way out is not the right way out..

Remove Redirect